BRIGHT SIDE OF NEWS About | Advertise | Contact BSN USER Login
| Register 		SUBSCRIBE Newsletter | RSS Feeds
Thursday, March 18, 2010
Email this to a friend.
Your friend's e-mail:
Your Name:
Your e-mail:
Message subject:
Comments
by: Anonymous on 1/28/2010
Regardless as to how many times this may have happened, it's surprising that MS CAN'T refund money. Not they they didn't want to, but that they can't. That's odd, to say the least.

I use iTunes, and somehow, my account was hacked. I got charges for two $50 gift certificates.

Not only did Apple refund me the money on the spot, they called me back with information about what happened, what they had done to fix it, and a new account number so that it wouldn't happen again. They took me at my word that the account was hacked, because there was no real way to tell.

I would think that MS would have at least the same ability and interest to help.
WoW by: Anonymous on 1/26/2010
I was going to post my experience with this product but after seeing the comments posted regarding Sean's article I guess I won't....
and Sean: thanks for actually responding to input. I do not see that as a negative.
Really? by: Anonymous on 12/3/2009
Nice try on fooling us. Key facts are missing here, such as was it your kids who actually did it? You pose a hypothetical situation how the account 'could' be used wrong. You never answer how it did go wrong. A company cannot be responsible for misuse of the software when it was not intended. An editor's note about how this came about after you interrogated your children would be nice. I know of no company that will refund your money, least of all Apple, when you make a mistake. By the way, at least with Zune pass you can listen to music you have downloaded after you lose it, I cannot say the same for the countless iTunes tracks that have been lost over the years thanks to the atrocious DRM Apple used for so long.
surprised by: Anonymous on 11/20/2009
i find this real surprising - i have a zune hd as do some of my friends, and you're the only one i know who has had such an issue..
i-Tunes and Firefox by: Sean Kalinich on 10/21/2009
in iTunes I can be logged in and still require a user name and password for purchases. This is not the case with Zune. You have to turn on 1-click purchasing to get that it is not on by default.

I can also (and do) turn off the auto fill in Firefox.

The difference is with both of those pieces of software you have those options.

In the Zune Desktop software you do not.
or... by: Anonymous on 10/18/2009
Or consider another scenario...using the auto-fill feature in your browser such as Firefox that automatically remembers and fills your account login and password on forms. Presto, someone is purchasing stuff or authorizing charges without ever having to actually know your account credentials, even when prompted for them.

This is what different user profiles are for, have you just discovered them?
moron by: Anonymous on 10/18/2009
The same thing can happen if you let your kids (or anyone else) use your iTunes account with the "1-click" purchase feature setup through the iTunes store.

The same thing can happen at numerous online shopping portals, if your kids (or anyone else) are using the same computer and user profile that you use to do your shopping. Amazon.com, for example, allows persistent account login and 1-click shopping with no password or additional credential prompts (since your last visit).

Are you entirely f-cking new to the online world of commerce? And if so, what the Holy F-ck are you doing writing for a technology rag? Christ!
@ Misinformation by: Sean Kalinich on 10/16/2009
You cannot share a Zunepass between accounts.

It is not active, they can only listen to the music you download on the main Zune Account (the one with the CC attached). This is exactly what I meant by parents will not want to manage multiple accounts.

This needs to be changed. It is important to have these items in place as this is the market that the Zune HD is being pushed to. I cannot understand why MS would leave this out considering all of the flak that Apple took over their crappy parental controls. You would think that if they want to compete they would have put a lot more effort into this.
@Chargeback by: Sean Kalinich on 10/16/2009
I have issued a Chargeback (officially Disputing the Charge), My bank has credited me the $50 provisionally. They have to contact the MS and the company that runs the billing for the Xbox Live System. Once they respond I may need to follow on with a signed statement if they dispute my claims. If not I will get the money back. The unfortunate thing is that this can take up to 90 days to complete.
Chargeback by: Anonymous on 10/15/2009
Hi Sean, please issue a chargeback with your credit company, and end this story with a happy ending. I, for one, would like to get an update if you do. It's about principle.
Anything from MS should be suspect by: Anonymous on 10/14/2009
Buyer Beware is the mantra whenever dealing with Micro$oft, anything Micro$oft
by: Anonymous on 10/13/2009
I've got several friends who bought Zune HDs and downloaded Zune softwares. They all have xbox live accounts that they transferred to Zune accounts (complete with credit card infomation) and they still haven't been billed anything (we buy our Xbox live subscriptions online because it's cheaper)

Either your computer is hacked or you just did so unknowingly. i have never encountered such a situation (amongst hundreds of friends with original zune software and zune hd software or itunes software) where they were billed unknowingly.

if your problem was widespread, then it would probably be all over the news by now. (just like the xbox 360 failures) I would say that your article is either your own fault somewhere or just a small isolated incident.
Misinformation with Zune Pass! by: Anonymous on 10/7/2009
Hello,

You are actually wrong about being forced to sign in to the main account with CC to listen to the music that was brought via ZunePass. I do it all the time to simulate having multiple users on a single ZunePass.

I'm in Washington, and my dad lives in Wisconsin. Basically once every 30 days he has to log in to my account, which will refresh the music license tied to the computer (assuming it's one of the 5 computers you can have on a ZunePass). After that, you can log into any profile that you'd like (this way I won't have his music showing up as being played through my account!). The downside is that whenever you want to go download new music, you will have to be signed into that main account, so this is where your kids should ask you when they want to get music.

Therefore, this is what you should do. Set up Zune on up to 5 computers that you want to be able to access the computer. Log into the main account with CC at least once (you may have to try to download a music file). After that's all set up, leave your profile on the computers but disable auto-login, and have it so you have to login with your password. After that, let your kids go nuts with their own profile! They won't be able to buy anything using your account now, and can listen to all of the ZunePass music! You will still have to help them with downloading music, but that way you can monitor everything to make sure they don't accidently charge your account.

Hopefully MS makes multiple users on a single ZunePass easier in the future!
by z by: Anonymous on 10/7/2009
Looks to me like most Anonymous posts are made by same person. Please check and ban IP/class if neccesary.
It would be a good ideea to disable Anonymous posting alltoghether, so this troll stops spamming.
Eh by: Anonymous on 10/3/2009
Buyer beware? I've not heard of this problem ANYWHERE else. It seems to be a VERY limited problem, limited to you.

Maybe it was a bug, if that's the case, call your credit card whatever and dispute the charge. Just about every credit card company will gladly remove it for you if you didn't authorize it.

More likely, you screwed something up, even if you don't understand how you did it.
Call your credit card company and dispute it by: Michael A. McKenney on 10/1/2009
If I did not agree to it, I would dispute it with my credit card and ask to have it removed. Better solution is don't buy the product until they remove that charge.
...xbox live... by: Anonymous on 9/27/2009
Xbox live is just as bad. I had to make a password to log in, but there's nothing that stops a child from pushing buttons and buying anything they want when you decide to go get a drink.

Defective by design, imho. Not to mention, you can't disable or cancel any subscriptions until you actually call them up. Of course, most places are this way, but Microsoft does it with insatiable skill.

Nonetheless, Microsoft got me a few times when my kids (who can't even read), downloaded games and such. They got me... but after that I knew better. I'm sure you know the same.

People that are flaming you need to realize that you're giving everyone a heads-up so the same doesn't happen to them. It's probably already happened to those with kids. On the other hand, the title is a bit misleading and brings out the trolls.

Mat B.
@Fail by: Sean Kalinich on 9/27/2009
The Zune HD is amazing hardware, hands down the best PMP I have worked with. The Zune 4.0 Software is clean, fast and inutitive; however there are a number of bugs that need to be fixed before the software is ready to compete.
Fail by: Anonymous on 9/25/2009
The Zune has sucked since day one. I have had mine 2 years, and it won't work with Vista at all. The software is glitchy and takes a ton of computer processing to run, and that's just with the old versions.

Also you really need to mention that the 4.0 software rarely installs properly - check the official Zune forum for confirmation - and it's just the usual... Micro$oft releases more trash for us to download. Yay. I have talked a lot of people out of buying ANY type of Zune because of how horrible they are. I hate Apple too, so I'm looking for something else to buy.
@Lashing out by: Sean Kalinich on 9/25/2009
I do not feel that replying to someone calling me biased without reading any of my other articles is lashing out. Most site the authors do not reply at all. I am sure you would reply to unfounded accusations if one was made about you.

As for most of the actual comments, I have the right (and I use it) to reply to false accusations of bias towards any product. As well as point to other articles to show my record of fair and unbiased journalism.

It is also apparent from many of the comments that the commenter is not reading the article or at least not the entire article.

For example the ones claiming that I hate the product when I expressly state that I think the Zune HD hardware is hands down better than the iPod Touch/ iPhone 3G S.

I have contacted my bank they are in the process of charging this back to MS. They are the ones that told me this was a common occurrence with Zune, Xbox Live and Mobile Marketplace.

Simply giving your kids a Live ID opens up Messenger, Hotmail, and a ton of other single sign-on web based products from MS.
It is not the answer here. Having better implemented controls is. Again it goes back to the target market. PMPs are marketed to teens and pre-teens, Microsoft needs to understand this and adjust accordingly.

Buyer Beware is a heading, the title is "Zune HD Software bills you $50 without notice - NO refund!"


by: Anonymous on 9/25/2009
I don't get how multiple Live ID's is a big deal. The parents don't have to manage them. They set them up...give them to the kids and that's that. They can deal with them however they want. If they only use the parents ID, they can access everything from their emails to their billing statements from Microsoft. While I would trust my kids, why tempt fate?
by: Anonymous on 9/25/2009
I think the title of this article is enough to be looked at as bias.

You basically are telling people not to buy the Zune HD b/c of a bad experience you had with something that isn't caused by the Hardware or Zune software normally.

"Buyer Beware" basically means stay away from this product no matter what. Maybe you should say. "Zune Software Problem Charges $50 without refund" or something.
by: Anonymous on 9/25/2009
Sean, you really are one of the only authors that I have read (and I've read a lot) that likes to lash out against a lot of your readers just because they made a comment.

Never seen that anywhere else...
by: Anonymous on 9/25/2009
Contact your credit card supplier and issue a chargeback request.

If this is a common enough problem, then Microsoft's merchant bank will put a block on Microsoft's account until Microsoft fix it. The cost of handling chargeback queries might make Microsoft sort out their software as well.

This is as ridiculous as the zero-security UAC. It's not about clicking Yes/No or Allow/Cancel, it's about ensuring that the right person is clicking the buttons. Something a password should be required for.
@Some Stuff by: Sean Kalinich on 9/25/2009
The Article is about being billed incorrectly (as I did not click on anything to buy points).

However as a side comment is highlights an obvious failing of the software in that there are no controls or checks that can be enabled to prevent anything like this.

I have used every software from Napster to Rhapsody , to iTunes you name it I have used it.

I every other case there is a final confirmation that you are buying something. In just about all of the other software I mention you can require an additional password to confirm purchases even if logged in.

This is glaringly absent from the Zune 4.0 Software. To have anything like this you have to have two different Live ID's.

This is a problem across the board with MS products. The same issue has popped up with Xbox Live Accounts, Windows Mobile Market Place etc.

So the article is about the software making the false charge, Microsoft (Zune Support) blatantly refusing to do anything about it, and the lack of any controls in the software to prevent this from happening.

Not many parents are going to want to have to deal with multiple Live IDs just to make sure their kids do not over spend. Now add to that MS not being willing to refund any purchases and you can see the bigger issue.

PMPs are marketed to kids (mostly teens), without proper parental controls or checks to prevent accidental purchases the new player will fail.

As I say in the article, the Zune HD hardware is simply amazing. Hands down it is the best PMP I have ever used, but MS has to start working on its software to make it simpler to maintain, monitor and control, they also have to have better customer support for the market place.
@ Why No MS Link by: Sean Kalinich on 9/25/2009
The rest of the site is MS.

And if you have read any of the articles in the Apple section (which it is obvious you have not) you would see such things as our coverage of;

"How Apple screwed up Snow Leopard and iPhone OS 3.1"

"How Apple lies in their commercials."

"How Apple Markets the Obvious and makes it seem like a glorious thing"

"How Apple pays companies like FoxConn to build their stuff cheaply yet calls it gold and charges more for it."

Again, if you read that section you would see that.
Some stuff by: Anonymous on 9/25/2009
For some reason I can't log in.

Anyway,I have to agree with some posters about the whole article being a bit strange.

After reading it twice, I'm still not sure if this article about parental locks or MS billing you without permission. In other words, too much emphasis has been put on the parental lock thing.
And yes, the article does scream "OMG MS what have you done?" in a pretty humiliating tone, instead of professionally stating the not-so-obvious facts which are far more interesting.
I don't really care about parental locks, I do care about my money gone (a typical paranoid online buyer's nightmare).

Oh, and concerning the Apple comments I can say only this: Apple plays a really difficult and profitable marketing strategy of promoting THE OBVIOUS. So congratulations to you all who managed to see things that even a blind man could see. When you dig a bit deeper however, you can see that Microsoft has brilliant ideas and implementations as well. Their biggest fault is that they aren't dumbing it down as Apple's been doing for the last decade. Remember the first iMac? Yes, that's how dumb some people are.

Bibor Kiraly
why... by: Anti-DRMintosh on 9/24/2009
Why exactly is there a App£e section on this site? No Micro$oft section??

Indeed, no bias at all... except that which you are obviously unaware of.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
Does BSN stands for Bull Sh.it News?... Just wondering.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
That's what happens when people drink too much Apple flavored KoolAid. Phony article
He's right by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
Microsoft support when it comes to refunding points is LUDICROUS.

I had a similar situation, where I needed a refund and NO ONE could help me. After numerous tweets and an email to the Robbie Bach (or an automated account of some sort) at Microsoft, I got a call from executive level customer support that finally gave me what I wanted.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
Just gotta point this out. You have an entire area on the website dedicated to "Apple" while a "Microsoft" button is completely missing...

No way you can't be a little biased with facts like that.
RE: Hatred by: Theo Valich on 9/24/2009
I would like to warn posters in this thread to check the site and our history prior to accusing us of carrying a bias towards anyone.

What happened with Zune 4.0 software happened and Mr. Kalinich reported it in his typical professional manner.

Here at BSN*, we are reporting honestly about each and every company and their products, regardless of their fan base liking it or not [or company employees, for that matter].

Microsoft has a serious issue at hands. If you want to point fingers at Apple, there are plenty of stories on the site where you can comment on the value of Apple products. Originally, first story about Microsoft Zune HD was supposed to be a preview. Mr. Kalinich informed me that he is delighted with the hardware and that he believes it is an excellent product. However, after happenings with his credit card account and shoddy service with half-way illegal customer service software [there are states in the Union where this CSR software is banned by law].

We'll continue to monitor the situation, but so far, Microsoft did not respond.

If you decide to comment, please do so in constructive manner.
Ed.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
I once had a similar problem with ZUNE and no one could seem to help me but then I found the holy grail. If you want help go straight to the top. Here is the number to Steve Ballmer (CEO) 425-706-8448
@ Here's a Thought by: Sean Kalinich on 9/24/2009
Again reading the article would be a help for you.

There was no child on the account. It was a hypothetical situation. It was meant to show why the policy of no refunds is not a good idea and how MS support fails in this instance.

Again for the record, I did not click to buy anything. I did not select anything, I did not accidentally click anything. Both the charge and the new points showed up while browsing through the TV section.

The hardware is great, the software clean and fast... The parental controls and support for the software are complete crap.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
Here's a thought. Maybe to the responsible thing and pay attention to what your child is doing while signed in to your account. If you go into a store and your kid eats $50 worth of candy and you don't pay attention, its not the store's fault they weren't paying attention to your kid. It's your fault; take some responsibility.
@ I like the Pictures by: Sean Kalinich on 9/24/2009
Those shots were taken while I was following the Zune Tech Support Supervisor's direction on how to find and activate parental controls.

Her instructions were to got to Zune.net and search for them. Again actually reading the article would help here.
@ Oh btw...it's me for my THIRD comment... by: Sean Kalinich on 9/24/2009
Have you read any of my articles? I do cover when Apple fails. I cover products equally and from a consumer standpoint.

If this was happening to you, I am sure you would not be happy about it. Instead you come and attack

This is simply a refusal to accept that brand new software is not working properly. As far as incidents like this they are common.

After checking with my bank they said that they receive request to dispute charges to from MS and XboX live all the time.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
I like those pictures you put of Zune.net.

It looks like you were searching for music by the name of "Parental Controls" or "Family Settings." The Zune.net website is an extension of their marketplace.

Just pointing that out.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
Oh btw...it's me for my THIRD comment...

Just gotta point out...if Apple did something like this...it would be nothing other than "oh well it's not happening to most" or something along those lines...

But because you think the product itself is bad...you gave the article a very negative spin.

I like both companies...but sometimes, I get the feeling Apple fanboys just enjoy altering the truth...

Sounds like Fox News or MSNBC.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
Haha, I wish I was the one who wrote all those...but sorry I have a life.

You were the only one who could have screwed it up that badly. There would be public outcry if there was a major problem like this...

Sorry bud, but you need to learn how to use computers before you start messing with them.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
Corporate fanboys are the religious fanatics of the 21th century. You can't reason with them, they think they know the right answer to everything and everyone who disagrees with them is called an idiot.

I would like to say, thanks for the warning Sean. Don't let the fanboys stop you from sharing the truth, wheather it's good or ugly.
All the same person? by: Sean Kalinich on 9/24/2009
Considering your tone and the grammar it looks like the same person wrote all of these

To make matters even worse you did not read the article at all.

I did not accidentally click on anything.
The new charge was there without me doing anything.


"You see I logged in and found a $50 charge for 4000 points on my account. I did not buy any points. I did not click on anything that said that my credit card would be charged. It was just there."

"So I tried to spell it out. I proposed a situation where my child was on the account using the free music service and they accidentally purchased something. I was then told "they could not because you have to sign in first and have a credit card." "

The word proposed means to offer a hypothetical situation.

As I mention below there are no parental controls. None.

The point of the article is that the charge was there without any interaction on my part. Period.



by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
ipods are for retards, and if you made a mistake, or your kid made a mistake, then why should they give it back? i understand, yes it would be nice, but the article title is just plain wrong, and you shouldnt blame them.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
1. The title of this article is a little ridiculous. You are the only person I've ever heard being charged randomly, your title makes it seem as if everyone who uses the software will be billed $50.

2. I imagine they've been testing this software for bugs for at least a few months before release, I believe this must have been a mistake on your part. I use the software and I've never experienced any bugs, nor have I heard of any.

3. You CAN have the Zune Pass subscription without having a credit card tied to your account, as well as buy Microsoft points without a credit card, as long as you buy the prepaid cards in a retail store. In my honest opinion, if you are too stupid to tie a credit card to your account AND let your child know your password, you deserve the $50 bill, to teach you a lesson.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
You, my friend, need to buy an iPod. Leave the Zune to people who have the capacity to not accidentally click thongs and then blame others. If your child did do it, it id still your fault.
by: Anonymous on 9/24/2009
I just think this is another case of someone using a computer that shouldn't. You may know how to type an article, but you sure don't know how to think properly when using a computer.

Have a super day!
© 2009 - 2010 Bright Side Of News*, All rights reserved.
Top Stories
Most commented
Highlight
  • AMD forms Fusion strategy, Offensive for 2011 set
  • PowerDVD 10 creates 3D movies from 2D ones, MKV included
  • Updated GTX 470 / 480 Specs Leak Out
  • Apple loses Director York to an aneurysm
  • Apple loses Director York to an aneurysm
Recent news
March 20, 2010, 20:00 UTC

Dear Readers,

In order to enable new features for the site, we'll be temporarily offline on Saturday, March 20th 2010 at noon Pacific, 3PM Eastern or 8PM/20:00 GMT/UTC. We should be offline for 15-25min, after which you should be able to see new features.

Thank You for understanding,

The BSN* Team
© 2009 - 2010 Bright Side Of News*, All rights reserved.