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Tuesday, March 16, 2010
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nVidia's PhysX shortsightedness angers developers



If you're making middleware that relies on a specific set of people using it, i.e. game developers - you should be careful of not pissing them off. Last week, we heard that starting with the Release 186.00 of its graphics drivers - nVidia disabled PhysX if you have an ATI Radeon card in the same system.

Now, the number of people who have an ATI Radeon and nVidia GeForce card in the same computer is very, very low. In fact, beside myself [ATI Radeon 4870X2, nVidia Quadro CX] and a few game developers, I don't know who exactly uses such a combo.

JC from NGOHQ.com even got an answer from nVidia on the subject from Troy of nVidia Customer Care:

"Hello JC,

Ill explain why this function was disabled.

Physx is an open software standard any company can freely develop hardware or software that supports it. Nvidia supports GPU accelerated Physx on NVIDIA GPUs while using NVIDIA GPUs for graphics. NVIDIA performs extensive Engineering, Development, and QA work that makes Physx a great experience for customers. For a variety of reasons - some development expense some quality assurance and some business reasons NVIDIA will not support GPU accelerated Physx with NVIDIA GPUs while GPU rendering is happening on non- NVIDIA GPUs. I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused but I hope you can understand.

Best Regards,
Troy
NVIDIA Customer Care"


To us, the mail above makes no sense. First of all, "Troy" wrote PhysX with a small "X" which warranties that nVidia branding caretakers won't be happy. Secondly, the answer means that the game developer support empire that was handled by Roy Taylor is definitely shaking badly.

The thing is, we got contacted by a certain game developer who develops cross-platform title that uses PhysX and for some reason, has both ATI and nVidia graphics cards in several systems. Needless to say, he/she was pissed off.
The comments included non-publishable slang, so the question is - why in the world would nVidia pulled a move such as this one? Furthermore, we were told that the software rendering mode that nVidia is using for PhysX [to demonstrate the difference between a CPU and a GPU] is not exactly working at full speed, but we'll leave that for another story.


Update #1 October 5, 2009 20:30 GMT - We received word from Eran at NGOHQ.com that anonymous forum poster posted an update that re-enables the physics engine rendering when ATI card is present, such as rendering on AGEIA PhysX cards on systems with ATI Radeon graphics. We applaud the community initiative on this one.


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Comments:

Assassins Creed DirectX 10.1 conspiracy by: Anonymous on 10/2/2009
Remember the "Assassins Creed DirectX 10.1 conspiracy"? nVidia bitched to Ubisoft because Assassins Creed had better performance on DirectX 10.1 and nVidia did not have a DirectX 10.1 GPU at the time only ATi did so Ubisoft put a patch out to kill DirectX 10.1 support in Assassins Creed.

That incident made me decide to never again by an nVidia product.
Community Backlash Anyone? by: Anonymous on 9/30/2009
Uh, yeah, Nvidia F'ed up big time here. I'm a lifelong Nvidia fanboy who is now going to buy an ATI for my next card simply because Nvidia is trying to "force" me to buy one of theirs.

They should know that it makes no sense to piss off their customers.

Nvidia Business Tactics = EPIC FAIL
by: Anonymous on 9/30/2009
Somehow I saw this as a blow to the hydra 200 architeture. Wasn't it cheaper to implement than NVidia SLI chips on motherboards?
CPU Physics by: Anonymous on 9/30/2009
"Furthermore, we were told that the software rendering mode that nVidia is using for PhysX [to demonstrate the difference between a CPU and a GPU] is not exactly working at full speed, but we'll leave that for another story."

Yeah and you know why, because it would render GPU physics useless for anyone with a high end CPU.

Playing the Batman Arkham Asylum demo on my Q9450 (overclocked to 3.6Ghz) which is quite an old quad core now, I was getting 25-30fps in the start area with PhysX turned on through software, and if you play in a window and check CPU load it's approximately 30%

If it was using 90% that would be a 3x increase in frame rate, the frame rate was definately limited by the CPU, lowering the resolution from 2560x1600 to 1280x800 gave no FPS increase.

Getting a physics engine running at perfect load balance across 4 cores is possible, check out the videos that hardocp.com did of the engine used for Ghostbusters which easily load balanced 80% usage on each of 4 cores.
Exactly by: Anonymous on 9/30/2009
Quote:

"Makes me wonder if I want to support a company that pulls this kind of stunts."

This is exactly _foremost_ in my mind.
Boooo! by: Anonymous on 9/29/2009
As a long time Nvidia owner, currently running a GTX 285, I find this move despicable. In fact if Nvidia thought they were getting more business by doing this they are sadly mistaken.

To be honest it's a bad business decision as well. ATI, currently owns the price to performance crown, so while someone may not get a GTX285 or a GT300, they may have purchased a 9800GT to go along with their 5870/5850. Now they are guaranteed to lose that sale as well.

This move will not make ATI owners purchase Nvidia products to get Physx. Instead, if anything, it makes Physx a losing proposition for everyone involved. I hope more developers go to OpenCL and forget this proprietary system.

Makes me wonder if I want to support a company that pulls this kind of stunts.
Phys X package for Wii by: Anonymous on 9/29/2009
I think, Green Team released a PhysX package for Nintendo Wii some time back. why do they do it, as far as remember it has ATI graphics engine.
Why by: Anonymous on 9/29/2009
Why? It's obvious why. Reason is Ati 5870. Nvidia is scared people with anything beetween 8800GT and GTX 285 will upgrade to 5870 and keep the old but still "more than good-enough for PhysX" Nvidia in for physics instead of waiting for GT300.

This is my case as well and I must say it works - it's the only thing which stopped me from buying 5870. Though I seriously reconsider dumping Nvidia now anyway and never ever buy anything form them again because this is not the way how a decent comoany would treat its past customers.

Actually I think it's on the edge of law because we bought the cards advertised to support PhysX and there was not a damn word about the fact that it won't work if you have competitor's product for completely different purposes in your PC at the time of purchase.
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